Ok, that was interesting, but for God's sake people, we had to start a new post sometime. So here goes. Relevant to the initial previous post topic (which is more than I can say for 90% of the 51 comments following it; but's that ok, it was entertaining) is ABH's report today that the "Georgia Licensing on Wheels" bus is coming to Athens on Saturday. The GLOW bus will be in the iron triangle from noon to 3. It's actually free to "indigent" voters (I'm not sure how they determine indigency for this purpose), or $25 for a 5 yr ID or $35 for a 10 yr ID for those who "can afford" it, according to the article. If you know someone who needs an ID, get em out there on Saturday.
Meanwhile, back in LPDSland, Margaret Johnston's letter grossly mischaracterizes the zoning issues. First, she states that Stuart Cofer wants "another bite of the rezoning apple". The request is as much, if not more, Bruno's that Stuart's. Next, she states that the rezoning would allow mixed-use, as if that's a bad thing. Then she suggests that LPDS's submitted plans were short of what is required for planned developments. Oh really? So the Planning Commission approved LPDS unanimously, even though the submitted plans didn't even meet their guidelines for consideration? Curious. She then suggests that LPDS will somehow "open the way for other property owners along Cedar Shoals Drive to obtain zoning permits even for strip malls, of which the eastside has an ample supply". Margaret, Margaret, Margaret. That's the everloving point! LPDS is MIXED-USE!!!!! NOT A STRIP MALL!!! Ahem, Sorry. If anything, LPDS will make it much more likely that you'll never see a new strip mall on the east side again. Instead, you'll probably see more and more of the very mixed-use development that you seem to deplore for some reason. For her last point, she does what I knew it wouldn't take long for some opponent to do: she uses Bruno's other lease issues as a reason he shouldn't get LPDS. I'll leave the debate on what's going on with those other leases to others, but saying he shouldn't get LPDS because of that is like saying...well, I don't know what's it's like saying, but it's ridiculous. The two things are apples and plaintains.
T to the I to the P to the S, yo.
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In reference to the GLOW bus. I have two problems: 1) how about those who do not have ABH service? Either they cannot afford it, can't read or the print is too small. How are they being notified? 2) Two forms of ID are required. Many older persons are not going to have the second forms needed. I work with older citizens and many were born at home and have no birth certificate and most of the women were not members of the military. Passport? Really now.
This may look good on paper but folks it's still leaving out the same people.
Disenfranchise the poor and poorly educated. You heard it here first, folks.
Nope. Fortunately, you have folks like us, the US Constitution, the Voting Rights Act, and (at least we used to have) the US Department of Justice Civil Rights Division to worry about these things, so that you can ramble on about how poor people shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Enjoying our First Amendment rights today are we?
But seriously, why do you hate the Constitution?
This is so off the wall I don't know what to say. Yes, I do. You are a perfect example of Republican thinking and the reason so many people - loyal Republicans - are trying to find an alternate way to vote. They don't really want to vote Democratic, but they are thinking about it and looking hard at Democratic candidates.
My point was that this bus is smoke and mirrors. Looks good but is an illusion. The people it claims to benefit are still left out in the cold. Is there going to be someone on that bus who can help these people who do not have the identification papers they need? It seems that should be a first step. THEN let's talk about requiring photo ID.
I agree with the idea of voter identification (although if it isn't a problem why did Republicans decide to "fix" it - Oh, to keep certain folks from being able to vote.) but before we require ID can we make sure that everyone entitled to vote has the proper ID? Just a thought.
How's that rock doing at keeping the bears away?
Can I ask why Republicans only seem to love the Second Amendment? Granted, I've got no problem with it either, but I also like the rest of the damn thing as well.
When I grow up, I want to be a champion for Third Amendment rights.
I never thought anyone at AP didn't see through the bus deal. I wouldn't be spending my time and energy here if I thought you were that dumb. It's just that working with older citizens, I'm very much atune to their unique problems that younger people might not even think about.
Keep up the good work. And thanks for your support of the disabled veterans mileage thing.
Uh, so, when was that Supreme Court decision that determined that the Second Amendment gives an individual, not a collective, right to bear arms?
Go read the text of the Amendment, Bucky, then find me that Supreme Court decision that says, "well, the Amendment say 'militia' and seems to be talking about community rights, but really it give every individual the right to bear arms." What's the name of that decision?
Such a huge can or worms to open up on such a pleasant Friday afternoon...
Good points ... all of 'em.
A couple of new points to consider on LPDS.
First of all, if LPDS doesn't pass, I would be surprised if anyone wants to develop this site for any purpose. While there have been some well-argued positions taken aginst LPDS, the majority of the rhetoric from the opposition makes it seem as though the east side is violently opposed to any type of commercial development at the site. Again, there are those out there (some of whom post here) who offer well-reasoned and passionate opposition, and had there been more of that coming from the opposition, then I, for one, might not have made up my mind on this one yet. As it is, what voices of sanity there are are being drowned out. And one result of that is that, if LPDS doesn't pass, other potential developers just might be scared off.
Additionally, it isn't as though there's been a whole lot of interest in the site prior to this. That property has been vacant for how many years now?
In the spirit of looking rationally at this, I'd like to ask a few questions, for folks on both sides of the issue to think over.
1. For people in the neighborhood, which would you rather see on the property, LPDS or a vacant lot? Those are the only two options right now. As far as I know, there are no other developments, proposed or potential for the site right now. Are the residents of the east side ready and willing to keep the land fallow, as it were, for two more years or more?
2. For people on both sides of the issue, would your opinion change if LPDS were looking to build in Boulevard, Five Points, or Cobbham? Or in your neighborhood? (Personal note: I had to think this one over for quite awhile, I hope you will too.)
These are just a few things I've been mulling over lately.
One final note, because once again, the dreaded s-word ("spin") has reared its ugly head. Now, being a political junkie (and one who has worked a good bit in the world of professional politics), "spin" isn't necessarily a bad thing to me. Heck, we spin all the time, all of us, politician or average Joe. Spin, done correctly, is just presenting the strongest points of your side. Nothing more, nothing less. And when you've got what is arguably the most powerful homeowner's association in the county and a powerful elected official bringing their weight to bear against a guy who, frankly, didn't give a damn about politics before all of this blew up, sometimes a little spin is your best friend.
My word, DiDDY! You are up late!
So....
In all this debate, I have never seen the ~real~ issue raised, at least the one about which so many of my Eastside neighbors are concerned.
On LPDS' own web site, they show that the nearest residences are less than 250 feet away. Mr. Rubio has repeatly stated that he will shut off the music at 11 PM.
I have read at least one post here from an individual that has elementary school-age children. How will live, amplified outdoor music 200 or 300 feet from your house at 10:30 PM assist you in geetting your children ready for the next school day?
If Mr. Rubio intends to keep the noise confined to his property, he should state that in his public forums, or in the newspaper.
If he does not intend to keep his music from being heard in the surrounding neighborhoods, then don't you think those people have a valid reason to object to the idea?
Sigh.
As of last count, the crack editorial staff have written no less than 11,778 words on the subject of La Puerta del Sol. We're humbled and embarrassed to admit that we've never addressed the subject of noise.
Oh wait, yeah we have.
"Tough to tell which side this guy is on, since he also points out that the arguments against LPDS based on traffic and noise are bogus too. " [LPDS: The ABH Mailbag - 10/13/05]
"The Planning Commission, much like the residents, carefully considered the problems of traffic and noise, and found those concerns to be negligible."
[Out, Out, Damned Spot (Zoning)!! - 10/12/05]
"NOISE, LIGHTING, TRAFFIC
These issues are similar to the alcohol one, except that they have a higher degree of merit under these particular facts. If LPDS created substantial burdens in these areas, each would be a valid reason to oppose it. The problem is, for the most part these concerns have been addressed in the Planning Commission, and the reality is that LPDS is not likely to cause even a noticeable increase in any of these areas, except for those directly adjacent to the property. Those are NOT the neighborhoods making so much noise against LPDS; rather those are apartment complexes, like Tivoli across the street. Having no concrete evidence either way, I'm going to engage in speculation and suggest that the occupants of those apartment complexes would overwhelmingly support this dining and entertainment option within walking distance. Having also lived in Tivoli, I'll also suggest that those in the apartments are used to the noise and traffic, thank you very much. A very modest increase will likely not be noticed." [LPDS Redux - 10/05/05]
Those are a handful of examples from October. The fact is, as you say, that the nearest resident is 250 feet. Those residents also live in an apartment complex, and let's be perfectly honest. It ain't Barrington and Tivoli who are raising a fuss about LPDS, in fact, as we've mentioned here before, most of the apartment dwellers seem to support this, based on out own (admittedly anecdotal) evidence.
The folks raising a fuss are homeowners, and the nearest one of those is almost three football fields away.
Additionally, while I'll concede that Bruno should probably acknowledge the noise thing head on, I also believe that the fact that the Athens Clarke County Planning Commission has done just that (calling the noise and traffic increases negligible) is much more credible than Bruno saying it. Why don't you agree?
Also, I've heard mention of outdoor music, yes, but not "live, amplified outdoor music," as you put it. According to Bruno, the outdoor music concept is going to be much more for ambience (meaning strolling guitarists) than loud raucous salsa bands.
Well, you have written 11,778 (whoops, make that 12,045) words, but I can't find anything quotingg Mr. Rubio saying that the music won't be a problem in Cedar Creek.
I read the Planning Comission package, and watched the PowerPoint(tm) presentation, but I saw nothing about live music - only the P.C.'s recommendation that "outside musical performances be allowed only from 11 AM and 11 PM" (I ~think they meant >until< 11 PM, but I could be wrong, right?)
Most of the people I've talked to who actually live on the Eastside are in favor of Mr. Rubio building a restaurant in the area - even at Cofer's site. Their objection is to loud music seven night a week until 11 PM. I have heard this objection from almost every resident I've talked to, so it can't be a secret from Mr. Rubio or the Athens Banner-Herald. I have yet to see it addressed by either one. Or by this blog. But I just found you today, so give me time to read all 11,778 (I mean 12,045) words....
You know how rumors start - some anonymous poster puts a comment on somebody's blog, and the next thing you know, everybody in town thinks the football team is being dropped in favor of water polo, or some enterprising restauranteur is going to be hosting Sabado Gigante in your back yard seven nights a week. In your heart, you know it's probably not true, but there might be a kernel of truth in it, or there might be the whole ear. If it's your back yard, can you afford to take the chance?
All I'm asking is for the developer to state what kind of noise he expects to eminate from his property, and answer the neighbor's concerns. Until he does that, I can't say I'm in favor of the idea as it is now perceived. I would hope I'm wrong, and something that is an asset to this side of town can be created.
Come on, Mr. Rubio. Clear the air...
(Initially posted as a comment on the wrong thread. My bad.)
Sabado Gigante on the east side! Now that's funny! You know, I try to bring the funny, but you just trumped me for the night.
Tell you what I'll do. I'll shoot Bruno and Matt an email, and put their response up on AP for all to see. Fair?
Of course, given how open and transparent they've been, you could also email them too. I swear, I really think these guys are in it for the right reasons and really want to hear and respond to questions, comments, etc about LPDS.
Fair. Glad to read this, and I've put further comments on that thread.
(Note that I've come out and revealed my true identity. No more hiding behind a cloak of anonymity.)
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